Here is an excerpt of a chat I had with a couple people about the state of volunteerism, and what to do to about it? I have removed all names except for the people and group they represent. (SEDS Canada.) I also removed a few innanities.
I'll put all of the important parts together in a later post, but for now, here is the entire conversation.
seds canada has joined.
I'll put all of the important parts together in a later post, but for now, here is the entire conversation.
seds canada has joined.
Stefan De Young has joined.
Seds: go ahead,stefan, care to explain to paul in a nutshell how you are feeling?
you want guidance from inspired experienced people?
you want to do awesome things, but you need a direction?
Stefan De Young: What I was looking for, when I joined SEDS, was a path to the stars, what I found was another organisation in search of that same path
this leaves me frustrated
for the past three years, I have guided a group of highschool friends to try and find the path
when I left highschool, I thought I could find someone to guide me
seds: ok... seds canada may be another organization in search of that same path,
but the difference between it and other organizations is that we have people like bob supporting us when we ask for it.
Stefan De Young: I'm frustrated that when I was looking for someone to write me a strategic plan, SEDS asked me to write it for them
Stefan De Young: that's the gist
seds: well, you can feel some solace... shawna has now taken the plan, and is doing some pretty awesome things with it...
but I want to be sure you appreciate how much you -have- contributed!
me: All volunteer orgs are going to be looking for talent. To add to that, there really is no "Right path to the stars". Just the one that will work for you. (The resources and talent you have available.) So, If someone starts to suggest a better what, Volunteer orgs will grab that and run
seds: stefan -what I recommend you do is get involved in paul's project (OpenLuna) for a while, until shawna finishes her re-write of the plan.
Stefan De Young: hmm
seds: his is the team that will actually get you to the stars 
Stefan De Young: hold on a sec, though
seds: what seds will be doing is helping him put together that team.
Stefan De Young: I need to tell you what irks me the most about my involvement with SEDS
seds:
Stefan De Young: the thing that has brought me the most troubled thoughts is this:
when I drafted a framework for the Strategic Plan, I asked the more experienced exec to write in the actual goals of the organisation
I waited a week
then two
and finally, I gave up waiting for the people who had been there longer than I, that period being anything longer than three weeks
I drafted the goals for SEDS Canada
I drafted five years worth of goals
I look at the most recent version of the Strategic Plan, and all of the goals I drafted are there
nearly verbatim
I felt and feel that when I joined the executive of the National Student Space Coalition
that there should already be some sense of what we were there to do, so that when I asked for the goals, any one of the exec could have told me what we were doing
anyways
that's what bugged me
that I had to set up the goals
me: reading this, then leaving.
seds: the goal of seds Canada has always been to build a national student space network.
the seconary goals that that would help achieve are many and varied,
and the steps to setting that up could also be considered many and varied.
I don't remember the weeks long waiting period you mention, though I have no coubt it happened.
seds: all I can do is appologis for if we let you down.
Stefan De Young: maybe I just joined at the wrong time...I know that I need structure to work effectively, maybe I should wait until SEDS can provide me with that structure to pitch in and do my bit
seds: it may have been that we were very busy, or depressed, or anything...
actually, at that point, shawna was not with us, and I think nasim and adytia were working on the summit already?
not sure what john was up to...
so the fact that you got nothing from them is understandable...
Stefan De Young: I don't think I've even met Adytia or Nasim...
seds: for my part, it is not un-usual for me to start something, then wait three weeks before finishing it.
Stefan De Young: to me, they're only names
I guess we subscribe to different work philosophies
seds: you need to come to the summit in November at Mcgill.
if you can't afford it, we will get money from bob.
but you need to come.
you have earned it.
put it this way.
when I got involved in seds, there was even less there than there is now!
there was Melissa, and a bunch of other people.
and Bob...
and Clara..
we essentially build the organization up from scratch!
there was no constitution, no website, no proposal,
no bank account, nothing!
there weren't any other executives either!
for the first year it was just sasha and zhara and me... and some other people online, like scott moon, and
Ryan Kobrick...
none of these people are active any-more...
even clara and john are less visible...
sad, really...
yes. I quite understand you.
this is what bob was referring to with the sustainability thing.
''and enduring national structure''é.
yes.
join pauls group,
and come chat with us in a week or so
Stefan De Young: what does that entail?
seds: pauls project?
Stefan De Young: "joining the group"
seds: ya. again, it is only just starting up...
I hate to say it, but it might be somewhat similar to seds...
in terms of you having to define your own project...
only this time, instead of totally in-experienced people like the rest of the exec,
the people you will be working with will be highly experienced people like paul, and gary, and others.
where you want to be is at the table when the Canadian space organizations have their round table meeting at the summit.
-that- is where you feel like you are in the cradle, rocked by the hands of the masters...
it's a good feeling.
for my part, I suppose I should say that every now and again I can contact people like kirk kittell, melissa battler, and paul and others, and ask them for advice...
Stefan De Young: well, that's what I have you for, right?
seds: so I at least have -some- contact with my ''betters''
Stefan De Young: Mr. President
seds:
I do what I can
me: OK, Here's part of the eal.
ALL groups are in trouble right now.
seds: that's really my only defense... I may make mistakes, and do, but I am always trying my best...
hmmm?...
ok...
all groups are in trouble?
me: Volunteerism is at an all time low. Everyone is hurting, it seems that no one has time to do anything but feed themselves.
seds: ... keep talking, please!
me: The X is having a record low # of X apps, there is only a few volunteers, the X all but folded up, X is for all practical purposes down to the board, the X has little more than paid staff. every group seems to be in a "Hero centric" mode.
seds: HS. you serious?
me: Meaning there are only a very few people doing all of the work, and that is what the membership expects. Many of them don't even bother staying members. they just watch from the outside.
Some people drift in, do a little work, realize how tough their lives are and get back out.
It's not just space groups, it's all of them.
seds: examples?
me: Mostly what you see is people at one shot events, (Like conferences, although the X's have been steadily dwindling, last years was the lowest, the year before that was and so on.)
The other thing you see is that a person or group will actively participate in a single "Heroic" event, then they are off for a bit.
seds: is this unique to Canada, or is it international? do you know?
me: (The X as an example.) North America as far as I know, but I understand it may be world wide.
Stefan De Young: So how did we get here, and how do we get out? Do we need a hero to dig us an escape or what?
me: So, The real question, is how do you operate in that kind of an environment, right?
seds: ya...
me: We got here, well, I have my conspiracy theories, but between the crappy economy and TV, we were screwed from that alone.
seds: ...
hmmm...
me: As far as how do we get out? We don't
It won't get better until the economy get's better.
We learn how to work inside this new environment.
seds: you are taking a very pessimistic view... give us something more than that?
inspire us, please!
me: Not pessimistic, realistic.
seds: convince us that there is something we can do that will make everything better!
that is what we all want to believe, basically.
we are fighting for it...
me: The situation has turned to shit. BUT! We can still work with these new rules, and use them to our advantage and perhaps even win better than before!
Because the difference is in the peak.
seds: reality may be reality, but we have to have a vision of what is better, if we are to go about making it so.
Stefan De Young: The difference is in which peak?
The prizes that stand to be won?
How, when there is such a high activation energy do we ever hope to make lasting bonds?
me: In the "Old Days" people would have a certain peak level to which they were willing to volunteer to. They would go to meetings, once in a while a fund raiser or special event.
But a regular, low lever of effort.
NOW, The we get less overall effort, but the individual effort is far higher.
Stefan De Young: your classic "hero-centric" model
Sent at 1:14 AM on Friday
me: so we get a few people doing a great deal of work for a short while, (the Heroes) and they archive greater project victories than could be done before, but they burn them selves out in the process. (X and X for examples.)
seds: (note -this is precisely what I am trying to avoid, and may be precisely why you got no response from me for three weeks...)
this is not an excuse.
me: then you have some leader/heroes that can stay on for multiple of these huge push projects, and become the hero/leader core. even they burn out eventually though. (Mel as an example.) they don't always drop out completely, but change focus for a while.\
seds: I obviously should have made a greater efforté
.
so you believe that X is totally burned out?
sad...
Stefan De Young: No, a better question is, what are the new rules of engagement, Paul?
seds: sure
me: But you are right, Michael, you have to stay on board, so although you operate at a higher pace, you need to maintain a level that you can live with. That's what you did.
X isn't totally burned out, but her activities put a serious hurt on her life, and she needs to rebuild that. She'll be back.
New rules of engagement... That /IS/ the question.
seds: well, we will do what we can to encourage her recovery
convince her that she is not alone
and you, while we are at it...
do you consider yourself close to burning out?
rather personal question...
me: Simple, You either decide to become the hero leader, the hero worker, or the worker. There is nothing better or worse about any of them, they are all just different and all equally required. then from there, you pick the project that you feel is worthy of your time and run with it.
(and, Yes, I do, that's why I am only barely involved in the Engineering Team right now, and have all but completely left the US Mars Society. I am moving to other things for a while. But I still pay dues...
seds: interesting...
deja vu...
the same thing with the unicycling...
you hear about something amazing happening, and want to be part of it..
but by the time you get to it, the people who were doing it have done it, are moving on...
are ''burned out''...
so if you really want to be part of something amazing, you need to be there from the begining, slogging through all the hard work...
me: Then, as a leader, you develop smaller project chunks, put together a team of heroes and workers, blast out the project, collect any that survived, (And make sure all see how "Richly they are rewarded", Many heroes are just last cycles workers who wanted to get what they saw the last heroes getting.) and do it again, until the big project is finished.
seds: it's like the stock market.
if you wait until the stock is high to invest, you will loose your money.
it is all about buying in when something is low, then hoping (or working toward) making it higher...
me: This is why the Hero/leaders are so important now, because they keep the overall vision consistant, and that is vitally important.
The quickest way I know to blow an organization out is to have consistantly changing goals. Then no one feels like they are actually doing any thing important.
seds: an example of an organization with consistently changing goals? Stefan De Young: SEDS Canada
me: The last X unit I was involved in.
MSC.
seds: you think all of our organizations have consistently changing goals?
me: they shouldn't.
seds: the goals seem pretty obvious to me...
msc is all about mars exploration research and outreach,
seds is about networking people and getting them involved in cool projects...
me: The thing that is right beside ever changing is stagnate goals, and it's that one that is affecting us X.
seds: the astronautic games are supo
me: See, neither of those are real goals.
(Mars research & outreach, Networking.)
Those aren't goals, they are processes.
seds: supposed to get everybody working together on -one- big project that encompasses all the others, and is interesting, and relevant...
me: A goal has a finish line. What is the finish line in"Outreach"?
seds: oh...
hold on -that's not fair...
by that definition, an organization -must- have constantly changing goals!
me: Then, develop that one big project. (Your games might be a good one.) and make every activity directly relate to achieving that goal, through your operational processes.
Sort of.
seds: otherwise it would exist for the time required to achieve the goal, and then it would fold!
Stefan De Young: Exactly
that's what we need
we need to get a goal that we can achieve
achieve it
me: Not constantly /changing/ goals, constantly /evolving/ goals.
Stefan De Young: then fold up and move on to the next goal
we have to achieve something before we start throwing ourselves at the next project
seds: ok. so the project of seds canada is to write the strategic plan.
me: and develop the next goal /in a logical next in line/ to the last goal
seds: and we are almost done (
Stefan De Young: that's a good project, unfortunately we've gotten mired down in it
seds: thank's in no small part to you, Stefan)
Stefan De Young: we don't know how to deal with paper, and we're spending too much time focusing on this one plan
seds: no, we have not got mired down in it.
we are producing something pretty darn awesome.
me: (Mired down is in the eye...)
Stefan De Young: meanwhile, we're not an organization because we're got no one to organise
SEDS is supposed to network, but all we are is a bunch of enthused executives
seds: you may not think so, but I think the only reason (or at least a major one) why shawna has been able to do what she is doing with the plan, is because of all the work we already put into it.
our effort stimulated her to put in her two dollars worth.
this comes down to presentation.
me: People, I should go to bed soon, I need to get up in five hours.
Stefan De Young: I love what she's written, Mike, but why has it taken six months to get our primary goals down on paper?
seds: I have been asking myself for two years now whether we should approach the other seds chapters before we have a website.
I have had this idea in my mind that they will not be interested in us unless we have a nice site, etc.
was I wrong?
should we begin broadcasting ourselves to the world?
what do we tell them?
Stefan De Young: But where would the content on the website come from if you have no one submitting it
We're not SEDS Canada until we have chapters
Paul talks about the hero centric volunteerism
we need to get people in if we want to get away from that
seds: paul is right... it is 1:30 in the morning...
me: you both have good points RE: plan and time...
Stefan De Young: we need to stop worrying about this one silly piece of paper and call up the people who pledged themselves fifteen years ago to find out where they are
seds: and in order to have chapters, you have to prove to them that it is worth their while to be a chapter of us.
in this sense, we are a business.
Stefan De Young: and this is coming from me: the man who draws endless plans to the exclusion of action
seds: their membership is what we want to get from them.
if they get nothing in return... well, we won't get their membership.
Stefan De Young: and they stand to gain an easily derailed executive body
I'm not a paragon of productivity, and it seems to me that none of us are
seds: so, you going to start calling up chapters?
Stefan De Young: therefore it stands to reason that we need more workers
seds: excellent
Stefan De Young: the saying is that many hands make light work
seds: I totally agree.
I actually sent out many e-mails about a week ago...
Stefan De Young: however, strategy dictates that each command level holds fewer members than the one below it
seds: I believe I sent you a copy of what I sent out...
Stefan De Young: we have an overstaffed executives executing nothing for no one
seds: strange...
I have a question for you.
at first I was director of chapters relations. I decided that what was most needed was a website,, to provide services to chapters.
seds: at least get a list of who our members -were-.
thank's paul.
Stefan De Young: alright, Paul, I will do so
seds: we are almost done...
then we got Nasim involved,
we saw how far the website was coming, we made Nasim director of chapters relations (I don't remember how many chapters i contacted...), and I became webmaster.
I did that for two years.
then they promoted me to president.
Nasim took on the summit...
so at this point, we have Nasim with the title of director of chapters relations, but not doing anything.
we need to shift that title to somebody else.
and I have my hands full keeping everybody together, because we -do-, despite your frustrations, have many people working on this.
so. it seems pretty obviously that you should be our director of chapters relations, if nothing else
Stefan De Young: they were right to promote you to president; you have boundless optimism and a talent for subtle delegation
seds: (you were only director of strategic planing because you took on the challenge of the strategic plan...
thanks
so, we will make you vp of chapters relations and recruitment, and get you to contact all those people out there!
me: That is an interesting point, In this new Hero centric world, when there are no Heroes, everything takes longer...
seds: ya. no kidding
it is sad though, that there seem to be only one level of heroes...
there are the masses, there are you and me...
and who else?
X and paul (who paul claims are both burned out)
and there is bob,
me: You can choose to be sad, or you can choose to accept the excitement oif the new environment and run with it.
seds: who we all feel is so high and mighty that we dare not speak to him for fear of bugging him...
me: And, I'm not actually burned, I just needed a change of project, but still keep up with the old one, I was trying to /keep/ from being burned out.
Stefan De Young: indeed
seds: for my part, I recognize that no matter how many people »I know, and how much paperwork I generate,
nothing will equal the thrill of working on my glider, getting it up in the air, then putting other people in it and getting -them- up in the air.
me: That is the end result of it all. What does it take to make your Soul sing?
seds: it is all about locaL development. act local, think local.
strange... that is a total contradiction of what we are discussing....
time for bed.
Stefan De Young: I agree
seds: there is logic in that last statement, but it will take too long to explain...
chat about it tomorrow
Stefan De Young: hm.
seds: night.
Stefan De Young: indeed
seds: phiew...
